In normal political times Wednesday would see the most dramatic event of the year.
Thirteen years after the Iraq war and seven years after the start of his Inquiry, Sir John Chilcot will deliver his findings. In particular for the relatives of the 179 service personnel who died, but also for everyone living with the consequences of this conflict, it has been a long time coming.
However, such has been the all enveloping chaos in Westminster too little attention has been paid to the coming Chilcot report. When the European roof is falling in on one Prime Minister it is difficult to concentrate on just how a previous one destabilised the planet.
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Behind his increasingly furrowed brows Gordon Brown might be forgiven for thinking that his own rocky premiership will be reassessed as a period of relative calm between two great disasters.
It would be a mistake to believe that Chilcot and current events are entirely unconnected. The link is through the Labour Party.
I have been puzzling as to exactly why the Parliamentary Labour Party chose this moment to launch their coup against Jeremy Corbyn and just what explains the desperation to get him out last week. It can hardly be because of a European referendum where Corbyn's campaigning, although less than energetic, was arguably more visible than that of say the likely big political winner Teresa May?
Would it not have been more sensible and certainly less damaging simply to put up another candidate against Corbyn and argue the case to the country? It certainly would have made for less of a pantomime and, with both establishment parties holding simultaneous leadership elections, it would have minimised the damage. So what exactly was the urgency in getting the removal vans to visit the Corbyn's office last week?
I had a conversation on exactly this point with veteran Labour firebrand Dennis Skinner. He answered in one word “Iraq”. The Skinner line is that the coup was timed to avoid Corbyn calling for Blair’s head next Wednesday from the Despatch Box. Indeed many would say that when Corbyn stated that he would be prepared to see a former Labour Prime Minister tried for War Crimes then he sealed his fate as leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party.
Remember until last week his Foreign Affairs spokesperson was Hilary Benn, not only a supporter of the Iraq War but someone who first became a Cabinet Minister as part of the delayed fallout from the resignation of Clare Short in 2003. Indeed Benn had the “reconstruction” of Iraq as part of his Ministerial brief.
At this juncture it looks as if the coup has stalled and Corbyn will survive to fight just one last day on Wednesday. However, will the Chilcot account give him the ammunition he needs or will it be yet another establishment whitewash in the long litany of British cover ups from Suez onwards?
Chilcot will not be a verdict, that much is clear. However, it could still supply the damning evidence for the jury to bring a conviction in. In a triumph of hope over experience my political sense tells me to expect fireworks. This is not so much from the inscrutable, indeed invisible, behaviour of ex-Whitehall mandarin Chilcott but more from the behaviour of Blair. Call this my contribution to the 'Blair Watch Project'.
Just before the European referendum came to the crunch Blair was back, complete with yellowish tan, haunting the TV studios like some unwanted poltergeist.
Remember Blair has already seen the passages about him in the report. Indeed he has had months closeted way with his lawyers and spin doctors to determine his best lines of defence. In stark contrast the families of the dead will get but two hours of advance notice.
Why then would Blair decide to launch his pre-emptive strike if he wasn’t deeply worried about the Chilcot contents? What would be the point? Surely he would just have kept schtum and waited for absolution on the day.
The fact that Blair didn’t plead the fifth tells me that Chilcot is likely to be damaging and that Corbyn will have his opportunity to paint the difference between a Labour Prime Minister who led the country and the world to disaster and a Labour leader who has consistently opposed reckless adventurism in Foreign policy.
It might even remind some Labour members why they voted for Corbyn in the first place to get a clean break with the past, particularly if he is opposed by another Iraq War supporter like Angela Eagle.
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However this is much bigger than a Labour Party matter. Across the House of Commons there are MPs determined to press the issue home.
If a politician gets off Scot-free with misleading Cabinet and Parliament about the reasons for war then there are no standards of behaviour left in British public life and no hope whatsoever of preventing another such disaster.
It can be argued that the lack of accountability about Iraq led Cameron on to committing many of the same blunders on a smaller scale in Libya in 2010. In Libya the UK spent thirteen times as much bombing the country as reconstructing it and the human chaos and bloody carnage of a failed state now moves like the tide across the Mediterranean.
And so it is with renewed determination that on Wednesday I will move into a secure room to read the Chilcot report, hoping that at last we will have the Blair’s big lie nailed, have exposed the pre-commitments made to Bush in 2002 and then find the correct mechanism of holding the disgraced ex Prime Minister to account.
It is unfinished business.
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From the blog of Craig Murray, former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan and now Human Rights activist, on 26th June. "For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status. Yes, they are that nuts.
From the blog of Craig Murray, former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan and now Human Rights activist, on 26th June. "For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status. Yes, they are that nuts.
If this turns out to be the case, Labour are even nastier, more devious and completely untrustworthy than any of us ever thought. Hope Corbyn stays put and Blair and his sycophants get was they truly deserve.
If this turns out to be the case, Labour are even nastier, more devious and completely untrustworthy than any of us ever thought. Hope Corbyn stays put and Blair and his sycophants get was they truly deserve.
Catherine, I hope that Gordon Brown and John Reid are two of those sycophants you refer too. If I had my way they would be standing trial in the Hague for the war crimes . ----- We went into that war and we are 100% to blame for the rise of ISES who were virtually all Iraqi's. ----- What a mess Blair and Bush have made.
Catherine, I hope that Gordon Brown and John Reid are two of those sycophants you refer too. If I had my way they would be standing trial in the Hague for the war crimes . ----- We went into that war and we are 100% to blame for the rise of ISES who were virtually all Iraqi's. ----- What a mess Blair and Bush have made.
Libya is just as bad. We bombed from the air, and left chaos, a power vacuum, and a launch pad for migrants. Many of the same people who wholeheartedly supported bombing Libya were first to call for a Brexit after seeing people trying to flee a hellhole.
Libya is just as bad. We bombed from the air, and left chaos, a power vacuum, and a launch pad for migrants. Many of the same people who wholeheartedly supported bombing Libya were first to call for a Brexit after seeing people trying to flee a hellhole.
Agree 100%.
Agree 100%.
Labour and Tory...two cheeks of the same a***
Labour and Tory...two cheeks of the same a***
And then 'Doctor' Fox repeated the performance in Libya. Should 'Doctor' Fox not be charged as well?
And then 'Doctor' Fox repeated the performance in Libya. Should 'Doctor' Fox not be charged as well?
Chilcot is reporting on Iraq. Perhaps more worms will emerge from WM in due course? There are of course powerful influences that will do their utmost to prevent this.
Chilcot is reporting on Iraq. Perhaps more worms will emerge from WM in due course? There are of course powerful influences that will do their utmost to prevent this.
Short memories have we not, the Scottish government was also in favour of intervention in Libya.
Short memories have we not, the Scottish government was also in favour of intervention in Libya.
True but the Scots had unfinished some business with Gadafi.
True but the Scots had unfinished some business with Gadafi.
True, but was it not Blair before his recent antics to undermine the referendum and it's results - who went to talk with Gadafi in his last year and tried to shore up some contracts in the oil game? Blair has a lot to answer for, his ego has cost us a fortune in mankind.
True, but was it not Blair before his recent antics to undermine the referendum and it's results - who went to talk with Gadafi in his last year and tried to shore up some contracts in the oil game? Blair has a lot to answer for, his ego has cost us a fortune in mankind.
The SNP backed the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 which authorised certain actions in Libya. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~"Demands the immediate establishment of a ceasefire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians; Imposes a no-fly zone over Libya; Authorizes all necessary means to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas, except for a "foreign occupation force"; Strengthens the arms embargo and particularly action against mercenaries, by allowing for forcible inspections of ships and planes; Imposes a ban on all Libyan-designated flights; Imposes an asset freeze on assets owned by the Libyan authorities, and reaffirms that such assets should be used for the benefit of the Libyan people; Extends the travel ban and assets freeze of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1970 to a number of additional individuals and Libyan entities; Establishes a panel of experts to monitor and promote sanctions implementation."~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~That certain countries taking part went beyond the scope of the UN resolution was nothing to do with the SNP who were not running the UK's force there. Tony Blair, the Labour and Conservative parties voted for a war in Iraq when the UN said specifically it would require another resolution to make it legal. A clear difference where the SNP and Scottish parliament respects a UN resolution and Westminster under Blair and Cameron don't.
Last edited: 2:09am Thu 7 Jul 16
The SNP backed the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 which authorised certain actions in Libya. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~"Demands the immediate establishment of a ceasefire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians; Imposes a no-fly zone over Libya; Authorizes all necessary means to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas, except for a "foreign occupation force"; Strengthens the arms embargo and particularly action against mercenaries, by allowing for forcible inspections of ships and planes; Imposes a ban on all Libyan-designated flights; Imposes an asset freeze on assets owned by the Libyan authorities, and reaffirms that such assets should be used for the benefit of the Libyan people; Extends the travel ban and assets freeze of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1970 to a number of additional individuals and Libyan entities; Establishes a panel of experts to monitor and promote sanctions implementation."~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~That certain countries taking part went beyond the scope of the UN resolution was nothing to do with the SNP who were not running the UK's force there. Tony Blair, the Labour and Conservative parties voted for a war in Iraq when the UN said specifically it would require another resolution to make it legal. A clear difference where the SNP and Scottish parliament respects a UN resolution and Westminster under Blair and Cameron don't.
Hope Corbyn's can manage to stick around to ask the embarrassing questions the Blairites don't want asked and he can eventually (Blair) have to answer questions in the Hague. Dying to see the t.v. program on Monday about Blair and his millions.
Hope Corbyn's can manage to stick around to ask the embarrassing questions the Blairites don't want asked and he can eventually (Blair) have to answer questions in the Hague. Dying to see the t.v. program on Monday about Blair and his millions.
Blair and 'Doctor' Fox are Friends of Israel and will be well rewarded in executing the Greater Israel program.
Blair and 'Doctor' Fox are Friends of Israel and will be well rewarded in executing the Greater Israel program.
That remark is bordering on anti-semitic!
Not bordering, it is anti-semitic.
Criticising Israel is not the same as criticising the Jewish faith. You might want to remember that before waving the anti semitism card.
Criticising Israel is not the same as criticising the Jewish faith. You might want to remember that before waving the anti semitism card.
In the case of most left wingers they are invariably one and the same.
In the case of most left wingers they are invariably one and the same.
You have evidence for this assertion?
You have evidence for this assertion?
So you would accept the broad sweeping brush statement that all right-wingers are dangerous, fascist, war-mongering, swindling liars then. Actually, I'm probably quite close to the mark on that one.
So you would accept the broad sweeping brush statement that all right-wingers are dangerous, fascist, war-mongering, swindling liars then. Actually, I'm probably quite close to the mark on that one.
How is it anti-semitic to oppose the further aggrandisement of an expansionist state?
How is it anti-semitic to oppose the further aggrandisement of an expansionist state?
Expansionist state. Israel, surrounded by nations that want them wiped off the map. I think we would have the same outlook in dealing with those states whereby compromise is not a word they understand.
Expansionist state. Israel, surrounded by nations that want them wiped off the map. I think we would have the same outlook in dealing with those states whereby compromise is not a word they understand.
The sad thing is that your anti semitism is so deeply ingrained you are incapable of recognising it.
What? You should be careful with defamatory comment such as that.
What? You should be careful with defamatory comment such as that.
Or you will set Hamas on him?
Or you will set Hamas on him?
What?
What?
As the dice roll 5'n'2 for Scotland, its Snake Eyes for Blair. England roll a double six. I wait more on edge for this than anything. Many UK parents of lost children in the Iraq war also. Maybe relatives of the staggering number of dead in Iraq.
As the dice roll 5'n'2 for Scotland, its Snake Eyes for Blair. England roll a double six. I wait more on edge for this than anything. Many UK parents of lost children in the Iraq war also. Maybe relatives of the staggering number of dead in Iraq.
I may be wrong, but I have not seen any mention of the One Million Iraqi dead. Hopefully I am wrong.
I may be wrong, but I have not seen any mention of the One Million Iraqi dead. Hopefully I am wrong.
Until Labour publicly atones for the invasion of Iraq with individuals like Blair brought to book, I will look upon them with utter contempt. Their betrayal of Scotland is as nothing to the human devastation they enabled, called for and implemented in Iraq. Two episodes crystalise the effects of their actions: one both horrifying and humbling for the sheer evil banality of what they did in our name, the other merely personally sad. The first was the account of an Iraqi colleague who told me her uncle, suffering from a chronic illness, died at home in Baghdad, early and in pain because security was so shambolic under the 'Coalition' that there was no safe means to get him to the already degraded state hospitals. This in a country that, before the 1st Iraq war, led the way in medical treatment in the region. Today, Iraq sits mired in continued despotism made worse by sectarianism now - ISIS is partly Labour's creation ... and ours for allowing them to get away with it. The second was the dawning realisation of utter betrayal I saw on my late grandfather's face as the Blair era that he (and I) had welcomed as a new dawn showed its ugly neo-colonial face in Iraq as a mere cosmetic device to spare some of the blushes (such as they were) of the Project for a New American Century. My grandfather and great-grandfather were of those truly heroic generations of self-educated working class men who not only voted Labour, but lived their values. My great-grandfather lived these values initially before the party even existed, later becoming a Labour councillor in Glasgow. These are not unusual stories. Many people of my generation throughout the UK will have similar stories to tell of their grandparents and great-grandparents. You know, I'll never forget the look of rage and bewilderment in my grandfather's face one day during the 2005 general election when he told me about an encounter he'd had with some callow youth canvassing for Labour in Cumbernauld where he lived: his argument that Labour values mean never sending the British working class off to fight the working class of another country without good cause was met with a patronising smirk and the announcement that "we've moved beyond the notion of class". He died before the first IndyRef and, while always dead set against the SNP, I do wonder, given the betrayal by his party during Iraq, how the spectacle of Labour's hand-in-glove betrayal of Scotland with the Tories would have affected his views.
Last edited: 10:08am Sun 10 Jul 16
Until Labour publicly atones for the invasion of Iraq with individuals like Blair brought to book, I will look upon them with utter contempt. Their betrayal of Scotland is as nothing to the human devastation they enabled, called for and implemented in Iraq. Two episodes crystalise the effects of their actions: one both horrifying and humbling for the sheer evil banality of what they did in our name, the other merely personally sad. The first was the account of an Iraqi colleague who told me her uncle, suffering from a chronic illness, died at home in Baghdad, early and in pain because security was so shambolic under the 'Coalition' that there was no safe means to get him to the already degraded state hospitals. This in a country that, before the 1st Iraq war, led the way in medical treatment in the region. Today, Iraq sits mired in continued despotism made worse by sectarianism now - ISIS is partly Labour's creation ... and ours for allowing them to get away with it. The second was the dawning realisation of utter betrayal I saw on my late grandfather's face as the Blair era that he (and I) had welcomed as a new dawn showed its ugly neo-colonial face in Iraq as a mere cosmetic device to spare some of the blushes (such as they were) of the Project for a New American Century. My grandfather and great-grandfather were of those truly heroic generations of self-educated working class men who not only voted Labour, but lived their values. My great-grandfather lived these values initially before the party even existed, later becoming a Labour councillor in Glasgow. These are not unusual stories. Many people of my generation throughout the UK will have similar stories to tell of their grandparents and great-grandparents. You know, I'll never forget the look of rage and bewilderment in my grandfather's face one day during the 2005 general election when he told me about an encounter he'd had with some callow youth canvassing for Labour in Cumbernauld where he lived: his argument that Labour values mean never sending the British working class off to fight the working class of another country without good cause was met with a patronising smirk and the announcement that "we've moved beyond the notion of class". He died before the first IndyRef and, while always dead set against the SNP, I do wonder, given the betrayal by his party during Iraq, how the spectacle of Labour's hand-in-glove betrayal of Scotland with the Tories would have affected his views.
Sad and moving, Derek. Your post just emphasises the fact that there is only one party which has Scotland's peaceful interests at heart.
Sad and moving, Derek. Your post just emphasises the fact that there is only one party which has Scotland's peaceful interests at heart.
Thanks Robert, thats kind, but I wouldn't go that far. All of the indy supporting parties (SNP, Greens, RISE etc) have Scotland's and the rest of the UK's peaceful interests at heart as do the LibDems on the Unionist side. Its the twin menace of the Tories and Labour's Blairite wing that pose the danger.
Thanks Robert, thats kind, but I wouldn't go that far. All of the indy supporting parties (SNP, Greens, RISE etc) have Scotland's and the rest of the UK's peaceful interests at heart as do the LibDems on the Unionist side. Its the twin menace of the Tories and Labour's Blairite wing that pose the danger.
Charles Kennedy wasn't opposed to war, he laid out conditions that the Lib Dems would back war. They made a great deal of hay in the media about their stance but imo they were playing politics.
Charles Kennedy wasn't opposed to war, he laid out conditions that the Lib Dems would back war. They made a great deal of hay in the media about their stance but imo they were playing politics.
Fair enough, Alan. Thanks for that. Perspective modified.
Fair enough, Alan. Thanks for that. Perspective modified.
Well, that maybe true but you should also acknowledge that the SNP were willing to vote in favour of military action under the similar circumstances as the Lib Dems: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2665027.stm and http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/02/charles-kennedy-anti-iraq-war-speech_n_7490950.html So if the Lib Dems were playing politics then so were the SNP...
Well, that maybe true but you should also acknowledge that the SNP were willing to vote in favour of military action under the similar circumstances as the Lib Dems: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2665027.stm and http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/02/charles-kennedy-anti-iraq-war-speech_n_7490950.html So if the Lib Dems were playing politics then so were the SNP...
Indeed - Bairns not Bombs!
Indeed - Bairns not Bombs!
Lovely post Derek.... Alas, one chapter has closed and a new one has begun, I doubt very much if either your father or grandfather would even recognise what Labour have become? Nor would I imagine that either would choose to have anything to do with the pale imitation it once was.
Last edited: 10:47pm Tue 5 Jul 16
Lovely post Derek.... Alas, one chapter has closed and a new one has begun, I doubt very much if either your father or grandfather would even recognise what Labour have become? Nor would I imagine that either would choose to have anything to do with the pale imitation it once was.
A pathetic spectacle of a once proud - and useful - party.
A pathetic spectacle of a once proud - and useful - party.
Some of us here in the Herald forums have made that very point. This the real reason for the revolt of the Labour MPs, as too many of them supported Blair. Rather than admit it was terrible mistake, they have opted to defend Blair. I never ever trusted Blair, and I warned folks against him. I wrote a wee poem one full year before he became Prime Minister warning folks. Even I, did not expect the Iraq catastrophe. Blair was well warned himself of the consequences of such a move. He ignored it all. Hoping all would be okay. Maybe he thought the troops would be home for Christmas. We all know how that one went. It is sad that Blair himself still cannot, or refuses to admit the mistake he made. That he insists on defending it, simply compounds the whole thing, and adds anguish to many.
Last edited: 2:11am Thu 7 Jul 16
Some of us here in the Herald forums have made that very point. This the real reason for the revolt of the Labour MPs, as too many of them supported Blair. Rather than admit it was terrible mistake, they have opted to defend Blair. I never ever trusted Blair, and I warned folks against him. I wrote a wee poem one full year before he became Prime Minister warning folks. Even I, did not expect the Iraq catastrophe. Blair was well warned himself of the consequences of such a move. He ignored it all. Hoping all would be okay. Maybe he thought the troops would be home for Christmas. We all know how that one went. It is sad that Blair himself still cannot, or refuses to admit the mistake he made. That he insists on defending it, simply compounds the whole thing, and adds anguish to many.
Certain followers of his can't bring themselves to admit it either. I can still see the rage on David Miliband's face when his brother Ed said publicly that the invasion of Iraq was wrong.
Certain followers of his can't bring themselves to admit it either. I can still see the rage on David Miliband's face when his brother Ed said publicly that the invasion of Iraq was wrong.
I as going to write a long rant Derek,you saved me the bother. You are on the money in every part of your comment.
I as going to write a long rant Derek,you saved me the bother. You are on the money in every part of your comment.
Derek, I lived in Baghdad and it was an amazing place to work and stay. Saddam was a fruit case but many of the stories that the UK propaganda machine told us we're simply not true. Of all of the Arab countries I lived in and still visit today Iraq was by far the best and the hospitality of the Iraqi people shown to the many thousands of Brits who lived there was amazing. However, Blair and his Cohorts have made many many Iraqis wanting to kill us and I would never go back (very sad).
Last edited: 5:22am Wed 6 Jul 16
Derek, I lived in Baghdad and it was an amazing place to work and stay. Saddam was a fruit case but many of the stories that the UK propaganda machine told us we're simply not true. Of all of the Arab countries I lived in and still visit today Iraq was by far the best and the hospitality of the Iraqi people shown to the many thousands of Brits who lived there was amazing. However, Blair and his Cohorts have made many many Iraqis wanting to kill us and I would never go back (very sad).
Not for the first time, David, you show yourself to be plain odd. A ghastly throwback to the Weimar era which even Arthur Donaldson would have recoiled from.
Not for the first time, David, you show yourself to be plain odd. A ghastly throwback to the Weimar era which even Arthur Donaldson would have recoiled from.
Why Alex? David makes observations based on his personal experience of Iraqi and wider Middle East politics and culture. What do you have to contribute to the debate?
Why Alex? David makes observations based on his personal experience of Iraqi and wider Middle East politics and culture. What do you have to contribute to the debate?
All he 'contributes' to the debate on the region is a lingering resentment that he cannot make more dosh out of fascist regiemes, and 1920s-style praise of the Mukharabarat. Then, as you just have repeated, the equally anti-democratic presumption that only men of property/wealth can have a say in the country's affairs. >> How does it feel to live in a liberal democracy where even the working-classes have the vote?
All he 'contributes' to the debate on the region is a lingering resentment that he cannot make more dosh out of fascist regiemes, and 1920s-style praise of the Mukharabarat. Then, as you just have repeated, the equally anti-democratic presumption that only men of property/wealth can have a say in the country's affairs. >> How does it feel to live in a liberal democracy where even the working-classes have the vote?
Blair enabled Parliament to vote on Iraq. Many individuals chose to vote against. The political climate of the time had a backdrop of 9/11...it was a major factor. Your subjective view of Labour's "betrayal of Scotland is as nothing to the human devastation they enabled" is not accurate. The truth is that Labour 1997-2010 gave people opportunity through: • National Minimum Wage • Welfare-to- Work programmes (New Deals) • Tax Credits (linked to earnings, loaded towards families) • Increases in Child Benefit • Investments in childcare • Increase in Income Support for pensioners and extra benefits e.g. winter fuel payments, • More generous second state pension for low earners. Abolition of mortgage tax relief and Married Couples Tax Allowance. Rise in National Insurance contributions • Reduction in basic income tax rate, and increase in top tax rate (latter only from 2010/11) The Under Fives • Child Benefit, Tax Credits (as above) • Extension of free part-time nursery education to all three and four year olds • National childcare strategy • Sure Start – integrated health, early education, play and parental support • Extension of parental leave and pay • Introduction of an Early Years Curriculum. That some people in Scotland were not able to take advantage of these opportunities is indeed sad.
Blair enabled Parliament to vote on Iraq. Many individuals chose to vote against. The political climate of the time had a backdrop of 9/11...it was a major factor. Your subjective view of Labour's "betrayal of Scotland is as nothing to the human devastation they enabled" is not accurate. The truth is that Labour 1997-2010 gave people opportunity through: • National Minimum Wage • Welfare-to- Work programmes (New Deals) • Tax Credits (linked to earnings, loaded towards families) • Increases in Child Benefit • Investments in childcare • Increase in Income Support for pensioners and extra benefits e.g. winter fuel payments, • More generous second state pension for low earners. Abolition of mortgage tax relief and Married Couples Tax Allowance. Rise in National Insurance contributions • Reduction in basic income tax rate, and increase in top tax rate (latter only from 2010/11) The Under Fives • Child Benefit, Tax Credits (as above) • Extension of free part-time nursery education to all three and four year olds • National childcare strategy • Sure Start – integrated health, early education, play and parental support • Extension of parental leave and pay • Introduction of an Early Years Curriculum. That some people in Scotland were not able to take advantage of these opportunities is indeed sad.
A fine rendition of the same weasel words we were treated to at the height of Blair's pomp, Slow-man. It wouldn't have mattered if Labour had plonked a school and hospital on every street corner in the UK and given each newborn child a year's supply of diamond-encrusted nappies if that was the price of our consent to what was done in our name to the Iraqi people. It was an evil, reckless crime against humanity. As Shirley & Company would have said, "OOOWW! Shame shame shame on you!"
Last edited: 7:27am Tue 5 Jul 16
A fine rendition of the same weasel words we were treated to at the height of Blair's pomp, Slow-man. It wouldn't have mattered if Labour had plonked a school and hospital on every street corner in the UK and given each newborn child a year's supply of diamond-encrusted nappies if that was the price of our consent to what was done in our name to the Iraqi people. It was an evil, reckless crime against humanity. As Shirley & Company would have said, "OOOWW! Shame shame shame on you!"
Ah, personal insult...so SNP.
Ah, personal insult...so SNP.
Insulting retort, typical Unionist. see what I did there?
Insulting retort, typical Unionist. see what I did there?
Andy, you wish to go on holiday next week to a land with no TV, radio, newspapers or WiFi. Tomorrow there is a Channel 5 documentary on Blair and his millions, then Chilcott ….. by the end of the week you'll be regretting ever admitting to be a 'Blairite'. The man is a war criminal, simple as that.
Andy, you wish to go on holiday next week to a land with no TV, radio, newspapers or WiFi. Tomorrow there is a Channel 5 documentary on Blair and his millions, then Chilcott ….. by the end of the week you'll be regretting ever admitting to be a 'Blairite'. The man is a war criminal, simple as that.
Chilcott must be heard.
Last edited: 11:52pm Mon 4 Jul 16
Chilcott must be heard.
Salmond the parasite. How many times has he fed his fat face on this story just to get himself free publicity.
Salmond the parasite. How many times has he fed his fat face on this story just to get himself free publicity.
More of your ranting spew from the ludge.
More of your ranting spew from the ludge.
Andy... you keep giving us this list of things Labour did for the plebs. I keep refuting it !! A few things on that. The Tax Credits, while useful, were administered in the most haphazard manner, such that folks 12 years down the line were being asked for thousands back...money they actually worked for. But some technical administrative thing means the Tax ppl still wanting money from ppl with no money, while Google and Amazon get away with nothing almost. The Min Wage, again, while welcome was set far too low. It was all of 4.20 in 2002. Now 14 years later, it has gone up by a mere 3.00. Billions were wasted on the Welfare to Work initiatives, for very little in return. The tories used that model to create the equally useless and costly Work Programme. Most damning for Labour was introducing the ATOS system of assessments. The problems were there for all to see 2 years before the tories came to power, and Labour done nothing much about it. And allowed the tories to do whatever they wanted once in power, as they had a system already in place to work with...... Things like that lost Labour millions, and millions of votes. .................... ... .................... .... .................... ...... .................... ....... .................... .. .................... .................. .................... ... .................... . .................... ....................
.... ....................
.. ....................
.... .... ... As for Iraq, Yes, it is true, we had the attacks in NewYork City and Washington DC. However, many of us knew Iraq had no part in that. None at all. The focus should have remained on Afghanistan, and Al queda. Much of whose funding came from Saudi Arabia. We didn't see western bombs fall on that country, which had, and still has as bad a regime, if not a worse one than the Saddam regime. There was no Bin laden terror groups in Iraq. Not until the Bush place man messed around with the former Iraqi soldiers, left with nothing. And thus began the start of what we see today with the rise of Daesh. Of course, that side of it was not Blair's fault, but he backed it. Despite all the warnings of this very thing. He didn't need to side with Bush. If there was one world leader who might just have persuaded G.W. Bush not to go into Iraq, it would have been Blair. Why W.Bush. went to war at all there is a bit of a mystery, as it was so unnecessary.. .................... ...... .................... .... .................... ..... .................... .. .................... ................. ................. .................... ..... .................... ....................
............ ....................
....... ....................
... ........ ........ Blair has yet to apologize. Perhaps he will do so in a few days. I hope he does. It is a great pity, a tragedy, that Tony Blair, who started so well, and could have done so much more, as he had the support of so many, ended up as it did. And damning for so many Labour MPs, they refuse to allow any criticism of him. Yes, as I say, acknowledge some good points, because not everything he did was bad, but accept also, his failings.
Last edited: 9:14pm Mon 4 Jul 16
Andy... you keep giving us this list of things Labour did for the plebs. I keep refuting it !! A few things on that. The Tax Credits, while useful, were administered in the most haphazard manner, such that folks 12 years down the line were being asked for thousands back...money they actually worked for. But some technical administrative thing means the Tax ppl still wanting money from ppl with no money, while Google and Amazon get away with nothing almost. The Min Wage, again, while welcome was set far too low. It was all of 4.20 in 2002. Now 14 years later, it has gone up by a mere 3.00. Billions were wasted on the Welfare to Work initiatives, for very little in return. The tories used that model to create the equally useless and costly Work Programme. Most damning for Labour was introducing the ATOS system of assessments. The problems were there for all to see 2 years before the tories came to power, and Labour done nothing much about it. And allowed the tories to do whatever they wanted once in power, as they had a system already in place to work with...... Things like that lost Labour millions, and millions of votes. .................... ... .................... .... .................... ...... .................... ....... .................... .. .................... .................. .................... ... .................... . .................... ....................
.... ....................
.. ....................
.... .... ... As for Iraq, Yes, it is true, we had the attacks in NewYork City and Washington DC. However, many of us knew Iraq had no part in that. None at all. The focus should have remained on Afghanistan, and Al queda. Much of whose funding came from Saudi Arabia. We didn't see western bombs fall on that country, which had, and still has as bad a regime, if not a worse one than the Saddam regime. There was no Bin laden terror groups in Iraq. Not until the Bush place man messed around with the former Iraqi soldiers, left with nothing. And thus began the start of what we see today with the rise of Daesh. Of course, that side of it was not Blair's fault, but he backed it. Despite all the warnings of this very thing. He didn't need to side with Bush. If there was one world leader who might just have persuaded G.W. Bush not to go into Iraq, it would have been Blair. Why W.Bush. went to war at all there is a bit of a mystery, as it was so unnecessary.. .................... ...... .................... .... .................... ..... .................... .. .................... ................. ................. .................... ..... .................... ....................
............ ....................
....... ....................
... ........ ........ Blair has yet to apologize. Perhaps he will do so in a few days. I hope he does. It is a great pity, a tragedy, that Tony Blair, who started so well, and could have done so much more, as he had the support of so many, ended up as it did. And damning for so many Labour MPs, they refuse to allow any criticism of him. Yes, as I say, acknowledge some good points, because not everything he did was bad, but accept also, his failings.
Interesting Gordon. And your policies would have been?
Interesting Gordon. And your policies would have been?
There certainly would be no benefits sanctions like we have just now, introduced by George Ian D Smith (IDS) or Bedroom Tax. Abandoning DLA would have been brought to an end, and Universal Credit. To be fair to Labour, these last ones were tory policies in the main, but some were built around Labour ones earlier. Labour should have opposed these much more vigorously than they did. Universal Credit should have been opposed. Labour is no longer intending to stop it as of yet. These policies would not have seen the light of day in Scotland, but for the imposition of tory MPs at Westminster. .................... ... .................... . .................... ..... .................... ...... It is this kind of thing, that demands Independence for Scotland.
Last edited: 5:23am Wed 6 Jul 16
There certainly would be no benefits sanctions like we have just now, introduced by George Ian D Smith (IDS) or Bedroom Tax. Abandoning DLA would have been brought to an end, and Universal Credit. To be fair to Labour, these last ones were tory policies in the main, but some were built around Labour ones earlier. Labour should have opposed these much more vigorously than they did. Universal Credit should have been opposed. Labour is no longer intending to stop it as of yet. These policies would not have seen the light of day in Scotland, but for the imposition of tory MPs at Westminster. .................... ... .................... . .................... ..... .................... ...... It is this kind of thing, that demands Independence for Scotland.
"Andy... you keep giving us this list of things Labour did for the plebs. " Pleb-Actually defined as a member of a despised social class, a commoner, a member of the plebs of ancient Rome. Also low-born, undisinguished, vulgar, and my personal favourite: vulgar-looking. This is how you look on your fellow citizens. Disgusting little man. You and your kind should have been the first in the firing line instead of the brave men and women of the armed forces.
"Andy... you keep giving us this list of things Labour did for the plebs. " Pleb-Actually defined as a member of a despised social class, a commoner, a member of the plebs of ancient Rome. Also low-born, undisinguished, vulgar, and my personal favourite: vulgar-looking. This is how you look on your fellow citizens. Disgusting little man. You and your kind should have been the first in the firing line instead of the brave men and women of the armed forces.
So why are my mates even more skint now than they were twenty years ago when I left Scotland Andy? All that effort for little REAL improvement.
So why are my mates even more skint now than they were twenty years ago when I left Scotland Andy? All that effort for little REAL improvement.
The minimum wage may have been introduced with good intention but in fact it resulted in a lower standard of living for many workers. There were very many companies who were already paying above the MW and they took it as a green light to enforce a wage freeze which in the long term has resulted in a lower standard of living for many workers...........Wo
rking tax credits also pushed down wages. Many workers on tax credits rather than push for a wage increase preferred to stay on a low wage with a tax credit top up. The government in effect were subsidising low wages.
The minimum wage may have been introduced with good intention but in fact it resulted in a lower standard of living for many workers. There were very many companies who were already paying above the MW and they took it as a green light to enforce a wage freeze which in the long term has resulted in a lower standard of living for many workers...........Wo
rking tax credits also pushed down wages. Many workers on tax credits rather than push for a wage increase preferred to stay on a low wage with a tax credit top up. The government in effect were subsidising low wages.
Well William, you need to ask each individually. You went away and put in an effort...good on ye. The state must provide, does provide opportunity for education and training, but we have our individual responsibility to ourselves and our families.
Well William, you need to ask each individually. You went away and put in an effort...good on ye. The state must provide, does provide opportunity for education and training, but we have our individual responsibility to ourselves and our families.
Spoken like a Tory!
Spoken like a Tory!
Tell your mates to work, and they won't be skint. My wages have more than doubled in twenty years.
Tell your mates to work, and they won't be skint. My wages have more than doubled in twenty years.
Andy can you only see the world in terms of money.? What a depressing defence of the Labour party .......really sad. There are more important things than money such as the death of British armed forces and the countless deaths of Iraqi innocent civilians.. Who cares about money when so many loved ones have been lost......
Andy can you only see the world in terms of money.? What a depressing defence of the Labour party .......really sad. There are more important things than money such as the death of British armed forces and the countless deaths of Iraqi innocent civilians.. Who cares about money when so many loved ones have been lost......
So the poor and vulnerable don't want a better lifestyle, i.e. money? Heh, heh, right. And then straight back to your fav subject...Chilcott will deliver for you soon...praise the Lord.
So the poor and vulnerable don't want a better lifestyle, i.e. money? Heh, heh, right. And then straight back to your fav subject...Chilcott will deliver for you soon...praise the Lord.
It's a shame he didn't allow the UN to vote on it then. Your weasel words do you no favours.
It's a shame he didn't allow the UN to vote on it then. Your weasel words do you no favours.
nothing to do with you since Scotland is 7% of the UK Population, you get a 7% say the non Scots Brits get 93%.. Good job you are powerless, since you seem to be a bit obsessed
nothing to do with you since Scotland is 7% of the UK Population, you get a 7% say the non Scots Brits get 93%.. Good job you are powerless, since you seem to be a bit obsessed
Please translate this for me. I'm not fluent in gibbering idiocy.
Please translate this for me. I'm not fluent in gibbering idiocy.
All the more reason Scotland should be Independent then!
All the more reason Scotland should be Independent then!
any fool could see the real reason for the Labour party to dislike Corbyn and want him out. The UK has no real political divides anymore does it, its verging on mirroring the American political system.
any fool could see the real reason for the Labour party to dislike Corbyn and want him out. The UK has no real political divides anymore does it, its verging on mirroring the American political system.
The real reason Corbin has to go is that he is out of his depth. He is not a leader, he has zero charisma and whilst most on here will have no idea what I am talking about he has no command presence. Totally out of his depth he has to go. He cannot even manage a press conference let alone a party or god forbid a country.
The real reason Corbin has to go is that he is out of his depth. He is not a leader, he has zero charisma and whilst most on here will have no idea what I am talking about he has no command presence. Totally out of his depth he has to go. He cannot even manage a press conference let alone a party or god forbid a country.
...........and this has been the criteria for past Prime Ministers, especially the most recent ones (and indeed Amercian presidents too) ... and look exactly where that has put the country... Social Principles over Corporate Charisma any day of the week, wouldnt you agree?? or perhaps you wouldnt..
...........and this has been the criteria for past Prime Ministers, especially the most recent ones (and indeed Amercian presidents too) ... and look exactly where that has put the country... Social Principles over Corporate Charisma any day of the week, wouldnt you agree?? or perhaps you wouldnt..
One without the other is useless as for social principles Corbin was a fan of Irish terrorism.
One without the other is useless as for social principles Corbin was a fan of Irish terrorism.
[deleted]
Don't you mean Irish fighting for their independence from a oppressive state.
Don't you mean Irish fighting for their independence from a oppressive state.
There were a few of your ancestors when Attlee was elected, and your still at it
Last edited: 10:17am Mon 4 Jul 16
There were a few of your ancestors when Attlee was elected, and your still at it
People who know what they are talking about?
People who know what they are talking about?
So that excludes you too !
So that excludes you too !
Churchill once claimed that Attlee had no command presence.
Churchill once claimed that Attlee had no command presence.
Churchill also wrote a history of WW2 which suggested he won it single-handed.
Churchill also wrote a history of WW2 which suggested he won it single-handed.
Obviously you have never read it
Obviously you have never read it
I agree with your assessment. He was elected as leader by mistake (or rather he stood without expecting to win) and much of that was caused by the £3 new members. That situation reminded me of a 1960s nationalist, Oliver Brown, who when asked what he would do if elected to Westminster, said in a flash, "Demand a re-count!" That is what Corbyn should have done.
I agree with your assessment. He was elected as leader by mistake (or rather he stood without expecting to win) and much of that was caused by the £3 new members. That situation reminded me of a 1960s nationalist, Oliver Brown, who when asked what he would do if elected to Westminster, said in a flash, "Demand a re-count!" That is what Corbyn should have done.
Charisma is so 90s and what is wrong with this country, not what is good about it. We have more than enough snake oil, salesmen.
Charisma is so 90s and what is wrong with this country, not what is good about it. We have more than enough snake oil, salesmen.
Do not confuse charisma with command presence and ability to lead.
Do not confuse charisma with command presence and ability to lead.
Blair was a smooth speaker who fooled many people with his false charm and sincerity. Whatever Corbyn does he will never be responsible for the deaths , misery and heartbreak that Blair was responsible for with his disastrous support of Bush in the Iraq invasion.
Blair was a smooth speaker who fooled many people with his false charm and sincerity. Whatever Corbyn does he will never be responsible for the deaths , misery and heartbreak that Blair was responsible for with his disastrous support of Bush in the Iraq invasion.
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Its cliche-man!
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Its cliche-man!
I have not found Salmond a reliable commentator, but that is a credible conspiracy theory.
I have not found Salmond a reliable commentator, but that is a credible conspiracy theory.
It will be very interesting to see if Salmond's prophesy comes true after the Chilcot inquiry is revealed. Dennis Skinner's retort was interesting though.
It will be very interesting to see if Salmond's prophesy comes true after the Chilcot inquiry is revealed. Dennis Skinner's retort was interesting though.
Thank you, Alex, for your article. I have been wondering why Labour have been putting on such a side show to take the limelight from the EU referendum mess - it didn't make sense when they could have been capitalising on it to the detriment of the Tories. Your article makes sense of it and I'm much more inclined to believe it than the anti-Corbin stories that are going around. I sincerely hope that Corbin survives and gets the opportunity to tear into the Emperor Without Any Clothes that was Blair. Westminster Labour should take note when young people vote in massive numbers for a man of authenticity - not perfection, but sincerity, values and roots, something Blair so singularly lacked that one commentator described him as "the man without a shadow". I hope that the Labour Party finds its values and roots again, but I'm not sure that they are capable of that. For it to continue on its shallow neo-liberal path is a tragedy for the country.
Thank you, Alex, for your article. I have been wondering why Labour have been putting on such a side show to take the limelight from the EU referendum mess - it didn't make sense when they could have been capitalising on it to the detriment of the Tories. Your article makes sense of it and I'm much more inclined to believe it than the anti-Corbin stories that are going around. I sincerely hope that Corbin survives and gets the opportunity to tear into the Emperor Without Any Clothes that was Blair. Westminster Labour should take note when young people vote in massive numbers for a man of authenticity - not perfection, but sincerity, values and roots, something Blair so singularly lacked that one commentator described him as "the man without a shadow". I hope that the Labour Party finds its values and roots again, but I'm not sure that they are capable of that. For it to continue on its shallow neo-liberal path is a tragedy for the country.
It is time NOW for Scotland to distance itself from Blair & co - a new 'Labour Party' in Scotland would be a start! Call it anything you want just stop supporting the likes of Angela Eagle and the other traitors. It would seem that what the people want is of no importance - that I have felt for some time. When looking for honourable politicians very few names from South of the border fit the criteria. Self serving in the extreme and now we have Neil Kinnick tring to put his son up there - unbelievable!
It is time NOW for Scotland to distance itself from Blair & co - a new 'Labour Party' in Scotland would be a start! Call it anything you want just stop supporting the likes of Angela Eagle and the other traitors. It would seem that what the people want is of no importance - that I have felt for some time. When looking for honourable politicians very few names from South of the border fit the criteria. Self serving in the extreme and now we have Neil Kinnick tring to put his son up there - unbelievable!
It's time to distance ourselves from the UK PLC and co.
It's time to distance ourselves from the UK PLC and co.
Spot on!
Spot on!
Indeed so the smell from the northern bogs is becoming overpowering. Corbyn will go because he is useless and an embarrassment who will doom the labour party to being an infantile cult with near zero seats in the commons.
Indeed so the smell from the northern bogs is becoming overpowering. Corbyn will go because he is useless and an embarrassment who will doom the labour party to being an infantile cult with near zero seats in the commons.
What are the northern bogs.?
What are the northern bogs.?
Where the hate factory is situated I suppose
Where the hate factory is situated I suppose
hooo-kaaaayy .....
hooo-kaaaayy .....
Nige by name, nige by nature.
Nige by name, nige by nature.
What is it with British Unionists that they feel they have the right to be a malign influence in this world? It goes back centuries with empire and to this day, far too many still have this mindset. But as Britain's influence wanes and many of the nations who we used to keep under our heel grow and surpass us, we'll find memories are long and friendships in short supply. The staggering arrogance and white supremacy of the Brit Nats will eventually be their and their countries undoing. As for Chilcot, it's tempting to believe that this time, we'll see an inquiry not whitewash a political event in this country, kicking the eventual truth 3 or 4 decades down the road, but I think we've been led down this path before.
What is it with British Unionists that they feel they have the right to be a malign influence in this world? It goes back centuries with empire and to this day, far too many still have this mindset. But as Britain's influence wanes and many of the nations who we used to keep under our heel grow and surpass us, we'll find memories are long and friendships in short supply. The staggering arrogance and white supremacy of the Brit Nats will eventually be their and their countries undoing. As for Chilcot, it's tempting to believe that this time, we'll see an inquiry not whitewash a political event in this country, kicking the eventual truth 3 or 4 decades down the road, but I think we've been led down this path before.
I am not a great fan of Alex Salmond's. He has told a few lies himself. Especially while campaigning during the independence campaign. However he is to be complimented for this article. Say what you like about Eck but his reading of the electorate and politics is second to none. In some ways I am I wish he was the leader of the SNP at Westminster. His thinking in this article is absolutely clininical. He really has the experience and the the confidence that Roberstson does not. In the debate to come Blair will cringe when the speaker calls Eck to his feet as he inevitably will. Roast Blair and his henchman Eck for the murderer and liars they are.
I am not a great fan of Alex Salmond's. He has told a few lies himself. Especially while campaigning during the independence campaign. However he is to be complimented for this article. Say what you like about Eck but his reading of the electorate and politics is second to none. In some ways I am I wish he was the leader of the SNP at Westminster. His thinking in this article is absolutely clininical. He really has the experience and the the confidence that Roberstson does not. In the debate to come Blair will cringe when the speaker calls Eck to his feet as he inevitably will. Roast Blair and his henchman Eck for the murderer and liars they are.
This is one of the sickest pieces of conspiracy theorising even the once credible aluminium foil hat wearer that is today's Alex Salmond has come up with, and the comments on this thread are truly amazing, again, even by your standards. We do not need Corbyn to condemn Blair, thank you- we can do that for ourselves. If the Chilcot report damns him then I can think of 100 people in Parliament who will be happy to ask for the arrest warrant to be sworn. Sadly many of those who knew at the time how misguided the Iraq adventure was are no longer in Parliament, as they were Lib Dems, decapitated as a party by the Tories and SNP between them. As for Corbyn: his trouble is that he is not suited to be a leader of anything. In the 80s people like him gave Thatcher a free run by making the opposition more focused on internal squabbles than setting out an alternative vision for the country. It's the same now. Corbyn is mediocre. He is low energy. He is a little old man best suited to crafting motions at a trade union convention. As for dynamically uniting the country and driving us forward- he simply doesn't have it in him. He is an utter loser, not taken seriously by anyone outside the new members of Labour's membership in urban centres (where they will win anyway). He needs to get the backing of about 50 times as many people in the country as there are supportive Labour members in order to win an election- and he will never, ever do that. No wonder Salmond loves him: Labour's best friend Salmond. If he thinks Jez is great what other proof do you need to take the opposite line?
Last edited: 5:26am Wed 6 Jul 16
This is one of the sickest pieces of conspiracy theorising even the once credible aluminium foil hat wearer that is today's Alex Salmond has come up with, and the comments on this thread are truly amazing, again, even by your standards. We do not need Corbyn to condemn Blair, thank you- we can do that for ourselves. If the Chilcot report damns him then I can think of 100 people in Parliament who will be happy to ask for the arrest warrant to be sworn. Sadly many of those who knew at the time how misguided the Iraq adventure was are no longer in Parliament, as they were Lib Dems, decapitated as a party by the Tories and SNP between them. As for Corbyn: his trouble is that he is not suited to be a leader of anything. In the 80s people like him gave Thatcher a free run by making the opposition more focused on internal squabbles than setting out an alternative vision for the country. It's the same now. Corbyn is mediocre. He is low energy. He is a little old man best suited to crafting motions at a trade union convention. As for dynamically uniting the country and driving us forward- he simply doesn't have it in him. He is an utter loser, not taken seriously by anyone outside the new members of Labour's membership in urban centres (where they will win anyway). He needs to get the backing of about 50 times as many people in the country as there are supportive Labour members in order to win an election- and he will never, ever do that. No wonder Salmond loves him: Labour's best friend Salmond. If he thinks Jez is great what other proof do you need to take the opposite line?
Just Google The Canary to see how wrong you are!
Just Google The Canary to see how wrong you are!
Do you think we haven't all heard about this? It's stale news and I simply don't care about it. My view on Corbyn is my own, formed back in the early 1980s. If someone else is conspiring that doesn't surprise me. Corbyn remains a total disaster and always will be. Where is our opposition? Where was our campaigner for remain when we needed him? Jeremy is an egoist of the worst kind- he is not fit to lead anything. I am not and never have been a Labour member. I want an opposition and he won't provide it.
Do you think we haven't all heard about this? It's stale news and I simply don't care about it. My view on Corbyn is my own, formed back in the early 1980s. If someone else is conspiring that doesn't surprise me. Corbyn remains a total disaster and always will be. Where is our opposition? Where was our campaigner for remain when we needed him? Jeremy is an egoist of the worst kind- he is not fit to lead anything. I am not and never have been a Labour member. I want an opposition and he won't provide it.
How are Blairites the opposition to tories? They are practically one and the same. Blair was more right wing than Thatcher. In anycase, party members voted for Corbyn as per the Labour party rules and there's no point crying about the rules now just because you get a leader you personally don't want and who quite likely will slate ex leader Blair for his part in the illegal killing of so many people. Oh, and for your information, Angela Eagle consistently voted for the Iraq war (and other overseas military actions). She voted consistently AGAINST and investigation into the Iraq war. Do we really need a person like that leading the Labour party at this particular moment in time? I'm sure the Blairite's wish it were so.
Last edited: 12:15am Wed 6 Jul 16
How are Blairites the opposition to tories? They are practically one and the same. Blair was more right wing than Thatcher. In anycase, party members voted for Corbyn as per the Labour party rules and there's no point crying about the rules now just because you get a leader you personally don't want and who quite likely will slate ex leader Blair for his part in the illegal killing of so many people. Oh, and for your information, Angela Eagle consistently voted for the Iraq war (and other overseas military actions). She voted consistently AGAINST and investigation into the Iraq war. Do we really need a person like that leading the Labour party at this particular moment in time? I'm sure the Blairite's wish it were so.
Lib Dems decapitated as a party by Tories and SNP between them ? I don't suppose Clegg cosying up with the Tories to form a coalition had anything to do with their demise ?
Lib Dems decapitated as a party by Tories and SNP between them ? I don't suppose Clegg cosying up with the Tories to form a coalition had anything to do with their demise ?
Have to agree. It was suicide by inches .... every photo-opp with a Tory, another pill popped .... every turn-around in policy, a tourniquet loosened to allow exsanguination.
Have to agree. It was suicide by inches .... every photo-opp with a Tory, another pill popped .... every turn-around in policy, a tourniquet loosened to allow exsanguination.
Criticism is fine as long as there is an alternative. What is sickening about this whole debacle is that it is solely based on personality and not on policy. The reason the LibDems where removed from parliament as were Scotland's Labour representatives, is that they not only only adopted conservative policies on the economy but got into bed with the Tories on making working families pay for the banking crisis and the Scottish Referendum No campaign. No wonder the political left in England has a mountain to climb when the enemy is within the Houses of Parliament PS Labour's best friends are those new recruits who have come to sustain them, otherwise the voters as in Scotland will transfer their support to those who will serve the interests of working people.
Last edited: 7:00pm Mon 4 Jul 16
Criticism is fine as long as there is an alternative. What is sickening about this whole debacle is that it is solely based on personality and not on policy. The reason the LibDems where removed from parliament as were Scotland's Labour representatives, is that they not only only adopted conservative policies on the economy but got into bed with the Tories on making working families pay for the banking crisis and the Scottish Referendum No campaign. No wonder the political left in England has a mountain to climb when the enemy is within the Houses of Parliament PS Labour's best friends are those new recruits who have come to sustain them, otherwise the voters as in Scotland will transfer their support to those who will serve the interests of working people.
dear old Alex, as deceitful,dishonest and cunning as ever. Twist every little political event into a mystery. Corbyn is a disaster as Labour leader, end of!
dear old Alex, as deceitful,dishonest and cunning as ever. Twist every little political event into a mystery. Corbyn is a disaster as Labour leader, end of!
Tin foil hats at the ready. Still, it keeps this serial failure in the limelight, and that's all he really really wants.
Tin foil hats at the ready. Still, it keeps this serial failure in the limelight, and that's all he really really wants.
The timing is interesting, you have to admit. I am no great Corbyn fan, but you have to admit he was elected by ordinary party members with a huge mandate, and it just doesn't seem right that he has been constantly undermined. Not just this week, but ever since he became leader. We might not have a Tory majority government right now if Labour had put differences aside and concentrated on attacking the Tories.
The timing is interesting, you have to admit. I am no great Corbyn fan, but you have to admit he was elected by ordinary party members with a huge mandate, and it just doesn't seem right that he has been constantly undermined. Not just this week, but ever since he became leader. We might not have a Tory majority government right now if Labour had put differences aside and concentrated on attacking the Tories.
A Tory government was the only one wee Nicola and the SNP ever wanted.
A Tory government was the only one wee Nicola and the SNP ever wanted.
And you talk of tin-foil hats. Oh, dear.
And you talk of tin-foil hats. Oh, dear.
Despite all, Blair led the Labour party to victory. It's not much use complaining if you aren't voted in as the governing party.
Despite all, Blair led the Labour party to victory. It's not much use complaining if you aren't voted in as the governing party.
You can think of the 3 quid entryists as ordinary party members if you wish, but their views and distasteful methods have nothing in common with the 9.3 million who voted Labour in 2015. It is probably true that Labour will lose in 2020 with Corbyn or a new leader, but the 172 MPs who voted against Corbyn are not thinking just about the next election, they are thinking about the survival of the Labour Party itself.
You can think of the 3 quid entryists as ordinary party members if you wish, but their views and distasteful methods have nothing in common with the 9.3 million who voted Labour in 2015. It is probably true that Labour will lose in 2020 with Corbyn or a new leader, but the 172 MPs who voted against Corbyn are not thinking just about the next election, they are thinking about the survival of the Labour Party itself.
Labour have just hit the self destruct button, right at the point that a strong and credible opposition is most needed. Even the Tories concede that point. The Labour Party does have to move on quickly from this or it could split. In fact that may be the best thing to happen now. At the moment Labour is utterly unelectable. Its principles don't matter a lot If the party never gets to do anything about acting on them. As for the large number of party "members" or supporters that voted for Mr Corbyn, well that is as maybe. If they can't see what is going on then Labour really might be finished. Mr Corbyn quite clearly cannot go on without PLP support. It is as simple as that. The damage being casused now is considerable. The members/supporters may have voted for him with a good majority but the Labour MPs that have lost confidence in him were elected by around nine million voters. It is now just a farce and that is good for nobody.
Last edited: 10:56pm Mon 4 Jul 16
Labour have just hit the self destruct button, right at the point that a strong and credible opposition is most needed. Even the Tories concede that point. The Labour Party does have to move on quickly from this or it could split. In fact that may be the best thing to happen now. At the moment Labour is utterly unelectable. Its principles don't matter a lot If the party never gets to do anything about acting on them. As for the large number of party "members" or supporters that voted for Mr Corbyn, well that is as maybe. If they can't see what is going on then Labour really might be finished. Mr Corbyn quite clearly cannot go on without PLP support. It is as simple as that. The damage being casused now is considerable. The members/supporters may have voted for him with a good majority but the Labour MPs that have lost confidence in him were elected by around nine million voters. It is now just a farce and that is good for nobody.
Re the Blairs, Private Eye magazine got financial experts to try to get to the bottom of how much they're truly worth and where the money is and it turned out to be an indecipherable maze of shell companies, dead ends and blind alleys, the kind of financial chicanery which only big money can buy. Peter Mandelson has a similar setup, Cherie Blair set up a charity which folded leaving a debt of hundreds of thousands of pounds. These people never were connected to the, currently despised by those who are supposed to represent them, ordinary people of the UK. I feel sorry for those who voted in Blair in good faith and found that the road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions. Re war crimes trial, I know that America brought in changes to ensure that no American soldier could be charged for war crimes, Israel also doesn't recognise the apparatus as having any authority, does anyone know if GWB can also not be brought to trial and Blair may find himself carrying the can himself?
Re the Blairs, Private Eye magazine got financial experts to try to get to the bottom of how much they're truly worth and where the money is and it turned out to be an indecipherable maze of shell companies, dead ends and blind alleys, the kind of financial chicanery which only big money can buy. Peter Mandelson has a similar setup, Cherie Blair set up a charity which folded leaving a debt of hundreds of thousands of pounds. These people never were connected to the, currently despised by those who are supposed to represent them, ordinary people of the UK. I feel sorry for those who voted in Blair in good faith and found that the road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions. Re war crimes trial, I know that America brought in changes to ensure that no American soldier could be charged for war crimes, Israel also doesn't recognise the apparatus as having any authority, does anyone know if GWB can also not be brought to trial and Blair may find himself carrying the can himself?
For Blair read virtually every Tory politician you can think of.
For Blair read virtually every Tory politician you can think of.
A bizarre claim by a sad old attention-seeker, a hate monger who seems not to care against who he directs his bile.
A bizarre claim by a sad old attention-seeker, a hate monger who seems not to care against who he directs his bile.
Do we put a name in of our own choosing, or just put up with your bile
Do we put a name in of our own choosing, or just put up with your bile
I like the name of our own choosing option, we can have that as a headline over a photo of someone new every day
I like the name of our own choosing option, we can have that as a headline over a photo of someone new every day
Lots of hate in your post.
Lots of hate in your post.
Even more hate in Salmond's absurd accusation, which even he doesn't believe.
Even more hate in Salmond's absurd accusation, which even he doesn't believe.
And again your main - only? - response to criticism of Salmond and the SNP: to infer hatred and irrationality in others. What is it about disagreement which you are intellectually incapable of comprehending?
And again your main - only? - response to criticism of Salmond and the SNP: to infer hatred and irrationality in others. What is it about disagreement which you are intellectually incapable of comprehending?
Yes Nigel we know you hate Salmond but what do you think of the possibility that Blairites were trying to get rid of Corbyn before Chilcott was published.
Yes Nigel we know you hate Salmond but what do you think of the possibility that Blairites were trying to get rid of Corbyn before Chilcott was published.
Even Salmond doesn't believe that bol*ocks.
Even Salmond doesn't believe that bol*ocks.
I hope you're right in your instinct that Tony Blair's sweating in fear while he awaits the release of the report. It's been fascinating in a disturbing sort of way to watch the entire machine at work - Blairites and mainstream media - the drip, drip of resignations coinciding with news announcements etc. The media seem almost more desperate to mislead than they did during the indyref, which is very telling! Just two days to go, I wonder what other desperate measures they might have up their sleaves.
I hope you're right in your instinct that Tony Blair's sweating in fear while he awaits the release of the report. It's been fascinating in a disturbing sort of way to watch the entire machine at work - Blairites and mainstream media - the drip, drip of resignations coinciding with news announcements etc. The media seem almost more desperate to mislead than they did during the indyref, which is very telling! Just two days to go, I wonder what other desperate measures they might have up their sleaves.
Why do I have to read the Scottish press to find out what is going on in Westminster?
Why do I have to read the Scottish press to find out what is going on in Westminster?
So it's nothing to do with; Corbyn's uninspiring performance during the EU referendum? (Although he was no less inspiring than Sturgeon!); His total inability to challenge and hold to account David Cameron and the Government, even when they're split and vulnerable?; His failure to increase Labour support in opposition? ; The continued draining of support to the SNP in Scotland and UKIP in the north of England ? The complete alienation of the majority of his MPs in Westminster? Salmond's only interested in defending Corbyn to keep the Labour Party divided and ineffectual and ensuring they have a leader who has even less public appeal than he has! The reasons Labour MPs want rid of Corbyn is that he is an ineffective leader and unelectable as a potential Prime Minister!
Last edited: 12:12am Wed 6 Jul 16
So it's nothing to do with; Corbyn's uninspiring performance during the EU referendum? (Although he was no less inspiring than Sturgeon!); His total inability to challenge and hold to account David Cameron and the Government, even when they're split and vulnerable?; His failure to increase Labour support in opposition? ; The continued draining of support to the SNP in Scotland and UKIP in the north of England ? The complete alienation of the majority of his MPs in Westminster? Salmond's only interested in defending Corbyn to keep the Labour Party divided and ineffectual and ensuring they have a leader who has even less public appeal than he has! The reasons Labour MPs want rid of Corbyn is that he is an ineffective leader and unelectable as a potential Prime Minister!
That was the excuse. Once it became clear Corbyn would hold Blairs feet to the fire i the event of Chilcot slating him, the Blairites plan was in place.
Last edited: 1:14am Tue 5 Jul 16
That was the excuse. Once it became clear Corbyn would hold Blairs feet to the fire i the event of Chilcot slating him, the Blairites plan was in place.
If you believe "The Wikileaks Files" (available from your local online bookstore in paper or online form), Bush had the US Diplomatic Corps putting "don't refer me to the ICC" into law of many sovereign states. Where the likelihood of getting this was adjudged too sensitive to get that far, they exchanged diplomatic letters instead. Wouldn't Blair have done the same thing?
If you believe "The Wikileaks Files" (available from your local online bookstore in paper or online form), Bush had the US Diplomatic Corps putting "don't refer me to the ICC" into law of many sovereign states. Where the likelihood of getting this was adjudged too sensitive to get that far, they exchanged diplomatic letters instead. Wouldn't Blair have done the same thing?
Luvly PIcture, Alex. Queues for signed copies? As for Mr Blair, he's about as popular as a Nazi at a bar mitzvah, and he's been judged by the majority of the British public already. Everyone should have a fair trial- that is True; but Mr Blair's record has been out there to see for years. There are over 2 million words in that Chilcot report, which will only give rise to more questions; which is the usual delay- and -cover-up strategy . Fact is, 9/11 started the chaos we still have today, because Mr Bush went for Saddam, (a target, but not the right one in question) instead of the Saudis, who he had flown out from any inquiry, as soon as he heard the news of the attack on the Towers, and as he sat in a classroom, on a PR visit. Anyway, what's the use; the horse bolted long ago.
Luvly PIcture, Alex. Queues for signed copies? As for Mr Blair, he's about as popular as a Nazi at a bar mitzvah, and he's been judged by the majority of the British public already. Everyone should have a fair trial- that is True; but Mr Blair's record has been out there to see for years. There are over 2 million words in that Chilcot report, which will only give rise to more questions; which is the usual delay- and -cover-up strategy . Fact is, 9/11 started the chaos we still have today, because Mr Bush went for Saddam, (a target, but not the right one in question) instead of the Saudis, who he had flown out from any inquiry, as soon as he heard the news of the attack on the Towers, and as he sat in a classroom, on a PR visit. Anyway, what's the use; the horse bolted long ago.
Bush flew out the family of Bin Laden when U.S airspace was closed not Saudis. Bush would never attack Saudi as that is where huge amounts of his whole families money came from. The Saudis helped set up Bush in business through his father, that is why Saudi Arabia is immune from attack. Consider this, why didn't America attack Saudi when they knew they were funding terrorism and Bin laden was Saudi.
Bush flew out the family of Bin Laden when U.S airspace was closed not Saudis. Bush would never attack Saudi as that is where huge amounts of his whole families money came from. The Saudis helped set up Bush in business through his father, that is why Saudi Arabia is immune from attack. Consider this, why didn't America attack Saudi when they knew they were funding terrorism and Bin laden was Saudi.
What else will Wee Eck share with us to see his name in the papers ? We've got enough on our plate just now and Blair will get his comeuppance in due course . Time to dig out the tartan troos again and retire to the golf course Alex.
What else will Wee Eck share with us to see his name in the papers ? We've got enough on our plate just now and Blair will get his comeuppance in due course . Time to dig out the tartan troos again and retire to the golf course Alex.
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Contrast Blair's actions with that of former Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson who refused USA's invitation to join them in the Vietnam war.
Contrast Blair's actions with that of former Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson who refused USA's invitation to join them in the Vietnam war.
Corbyn has his own agenda which would appear to be the destruction of the Labour party and the emergence of a pseudo Trotskyist organization. It is understandable why Salmond is a supporter. They are in the same mould.
Corbyn has his own agenda which would appear to be the destruction of the Labour party and the emergence of a pseudo Trotskyist organization. It is understandable why Salmond is a supporter. They are in the same mould.
Alex Salmond: "Yes it is true that my attention-seeking behaviour is pathological, but they love it up in Gordon".
Alex Salmond: "Yes it is true that my attention-seeking behaviour is pathological, but they love it up in Gordon".