MOORS murderer Ian Brady has never been close to being treated for his behaviour, an expert has told the tribunal deciding whether he should be moved from a mental hospital.

Dr Caroline Logan, a consultant forensic clinical psychologist, said Brady is unwilling to speak or engage with clinicians. She described him as pathologically narcissistic, adding he has a "powerful sense of his own self-worth" and a "profound lack of insight".

She said: "We can't get inside his head, as it were, and scrutinise his thoughts, feelings and beliefs."

Glasgow-born Brady has brought the mental health tribunal because he believes he is not mentally ill and wants to be transferred to a Scottish prison. The paedophile child-killer will give evidence in person on Tuesday to the tribunal sitting at maximum security Ashworth Hospital on Merseyside.

Yesterday, he sat next to his legal team, listening to proceedings and making notes.

Dr Logan, who was called to give evidence by Ashworth Hospital, said the only clues to his mental health are his past and current observable behaviour and she was unable to discount schizophrenia.

His problem is other people, not himself, she said.

Dr Logan added: "I think he is at risk of harming other people. He has a history of the most extreme violence. He's never received any treatment for his deviant sexual interests, which can't be denied."

She added: "Mr Brady is very handy with expletives," and this would create "extreme difficulties" if he spoke that way to prison officers and other inmates in a jail setting.

Dr Logan, under cross-examination by Nathalie Lieven QC for Brady, said he had been guilty of "appalling" crimes. "He has been convicted for three murders," she said. "We know he committed five. He's a man with a track record for the ultimate violence and he's never been treated. He's never been close to being treated for his offending behaviour.

"We can't possibly say 'Aw, he's an old fella now, he won't offend'. We can't take that risk."

The tribunal was also told of an incident when Brady attacked another patient, strangling his victim until staff dragged him off.

Eleanor Grey, QC, representing Ashworth, reading hospital records of the incident, on July 31, 1997, said Brady was in the kitchen on the ward with another patient, known only as W, who was coughing. "Mr Brady began coughing in a mimicking fashion and W took exception. W told Ian to 'drop dead' and Ian told him, 'you drop dead' and proceeded to grab W by the throat and strangle him and continued to hold him by the neck over the sink until staff intervened. If they had not done so they believed he would have completed the strangulation."

Brady was given life at Chester Assizes on May 6, 1966 – the last time he spoke in a public forum as he denied a series of child murders.

Brady and his partner, Myra Hindley, were convicted of luring children and teenagers to their deaths, with their victims sexually tortured before being buried on Saddleworth Moor. Brady was moved out of the prison system to Ashworth in 1985 as his mental health deteriorated.

The tribunal is sitting to determine whether he can be allowed to return to jail to continue serving his whole life sentence.

The 75-year-old, who has been on hunger strike since 1999, believes he will be able to starve himself to death in a jail. He is currently assessed as being chronically mentally ill and is fed through a tube in his nose.

Judge Robert Atherton, chairing the three-man panel hearing the tribunal, said yesterday: "We are going to take Mr Brady's evidence on Tuesday.

"Mr Brady will be giving evidence on Tuesday. He will probably be the last witness."