Talks between Alex Salmond and Scottish Secretary Michael Moore ended with both men at odds over whether agreement on the date for the independence referendum had been reached.

The First Minister, who plans a referendum for autumn 2014, said there was not a serious argument between Holyrood and Westminster about the timing while Mr Moore insisted they had not been able to agree on the issue.

He repeated the UK Government's position that it should take place "sooner rather than later".

He claimed Mr Salmond was looking at a date in September 2014, rather than St Andrew's Day that year, but insisted he was not interested in trading dates.

There was also disagreement after their meeting yesterday about the importance of Mr Moore's role in the negotiations.

He said Prime Minister David Cameron had been clear from day one that he had been asked to bring forward the UK Government's referendum proposals and lead the talks with Mr Salmond.

However Mr Salmond claimed: "The Prime Minister makes the decisions, that much is obvious".

The First Minister added: "Michael Moore, the Secretary of State for Scotland, he's appointed by the Prime Minister – that's not meant to be a snub or any disrespect. That's just a statement of fact.

"If you are negotiating, you negotiate with the person or people who made the decisions. That, again, is just a statement of fact."

Mr Salmond made his view clear ahead of a meeting with Mr Cameron in Edinburgh on Thursday after Downing Street sources were quoted as saying it was a courtesy visit.

Mr Salmond joked: "Courtesy visits are usually what prime ministers do to foreign heads of state. I don't know if that's what Downing Street meant to imply."

Despite the disagreement on the timing of the referendum, Mr Salmond said the talks had made modest progress and Mr Moore said it had been a good, substantial meeting.

The First Minister said issues over the timing of the referendum and the role of the Electoral Commission in organising the vote had been more or less settled.

However, he said sticking points remained over whether there should be a second question on the ballot paper on the devo-max option, giving Holyrood greatly enhanced powers, and whether 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote.

Both the Scottish and the UK Governments are holding their own consultations on the referendum and Mr Salmond said it was useful that Mr Moore had declared the UK Government was willing to listen to the views presented in them.

He said: "I think in terms of getting a resolution, then perhaps the voice of the people will be very, very important."

He did not anticipate any agreement between Holyrood and Westminster on the issues until after the consultations had been analysed.

Mr Moore said: "There is no question that we still have some way to travel to reach agreement on some important aspects of the referendum.

"I am still not convinced the people of Scotland should have to wait nearly three years to have their say on independence. It is a long time until autumn 2014 and I have still to hear a good reason for why we should have to wait so long.

"I also believe that an independence referendum should be a straight question on independence.

"The UK Government is also not persuaded that we should start changing the referendum rules to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. Our view is the electorate that elects the Scottish Parliament should be the same one that votes in the referendum."

Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont said: "It doesn't bode well for Scotland's referendum that the First Minister and Scottish Secretary can't even agree what they agreed at their meeting. If we are continuing to debate the timetable, the franchise and the wording of the question, then we are not talking about the things that matter to people."