Alan McInally understood the status of Bayern Munich soon after he moved to the German club.

Following an away game at St Pauli, local fans gathered outside the ground to barrack the visiting players. Uli Hoeness, then a Bayern executive, stood on the steps berating them back, and had a pitcher of beer poured over him. "There's that dislike of Bayern and Bayern's success," McInally said.

The former Bayern striker is sitting in a bookmaker's in Edinburgh, holding court about the German side and Saturday's Champions League final at Wembley, in which his old side face their domestic rivals Borussia Dortmund. Bayern, and his own spell there from 1989 to 1992, is a specialist subject for McInally, but he is capable of great insight into a club that is an institution in Germany, and often suffers the consequences of that.

In his gruffly jocular way, McInally takes centre stage. He was popular with the fans at Bayern and won the Bundesliga title during his first season in Germany, but McInally's time at Bayern is almost just as fruitful now. He can delve into his recollections of his time there, but Sky Sports also sent him to Munich last week to conduct interviews ahead of the final.

"We did Philipp Lahm and Matthias Sammer," McInally grins. "I get a bit more access with Bayern than an ex-player really should, to be honest."

He is joined by Murdo MacLeod, the former Celtic midfielder who spent three years at Borussia Dortmund. When they talk about the rivalry between the two clubs, it is with a mixture of grimace and smile. As former pros, they relish the intensity of the competitiveness between the teams and their supporters, and having played for the clubs, they can illuminate the extent of the relationship between them, and the context of their standing in German society.

"You'd better believe there's a bit of aggro," says McInally. "You've got the north-south divide, Mario Goetze coming to Bayern [at the end of the season from Dortmund] and people not being happy that's leaked out.

"You've got Sammer who won the European Cup in '97 with Dortmund and is now general manager at Bayern. Throw in another couple of hand grenades and you've got some Champions League final. Every single person outside a 10-mile radius of Munich wants Dortmund to win."

That sense of being under siege, of being a club that is the subject of widespread dislike because of its status and success, used to inspire McInally. In a sense, it was something to rise up against, in the same way that Dortmund, and others, could take motivation from challenging the hierarchy and trying to overcome the exalted club.

Despite Dortmund's glorious resurgence in recent years, becoming the triumphant side in Germany for a spell before Bayern responded, the old certainties remain. As well as Goetze, Bayern have been linked with signing Robert Lewandowski, the prolific Dortmund striker.

"It's not that the rest of Germany will support Dortmund ... it will be the rest of the world supporting Dortmund," says MacLeod. "Borussia Dortmund are the working-class football team, have the working-class fans, and the players know what the fans expect. They work hard in a working-class city. Most of the football clubs of the world are in working-class cities and the fans will side with Dortmund.

"[When MacLeod was at Dortmund] everybody would talk about how the Bayern players were arrogant and wouldn't talk to the press, whereas the boys at Dortmund always would. Traditionally, Bayern have all the money and any good player coming through would get snapped up.

"They bought all the best players, bar one [he points at McInally, laughing]. Dortmund have elevated themselves to Bayern's level in recent years by winning the championship. All of a sudden, the rivalry has another edge. Then when they start taking the Dortmund players, it gets personal."

Some saw the passing of an age in the way that Bayern so ruthlessly and powerfully dismantled Barcelona in the semi-finals, sweeping aside their pomp and seeming imperious. Yet there was a sense of freedom and dynamism in the way that Jurgen Klopp's Dortmund team overwhelmed Jose Mourinho's preening Real Madrid side. There was a gloriously emphatic nature to the two first-leg victories in Germany. The prospect of an all-German final was widely embraced, since Bayern have progressed into a position of superiority in Europe.

Dortmund have become the club of the discerning fans, the "hipsters", valued for their style of football, their previously unheralded coach and players, and the sheer scale and exuberance of their support. Yet a final between the two clubs is also riven with psychological hang-ups that make it more testing for both than if they were facing opponents from another country.

"I'm sure both sides would have preferred to play one of the Spanish sides in the final because they are so used to playing each other and there is no element of surprise," MacLeod said. "They both know their strengths and weaknesses. Bayern have had the upper hand this year against Dortmund, but over the last couple of years Dortmund have been strong against them.

"Of course Dortmund could win when you look at the quality of performance against Real Madrid, especially in the home game where they were outstanding [winning 4-1]. In the away game they were a wee bit nervous early on, but aside from that I thought they had the best chances in the game. They tell me the Dortmund president was sitting next to the King of Spain at the Bernabeu and, as the second [Real Madrid] goal went in, said 'excuse me' and left to watch the game in the toilet."

Both Scots can still recognise the clubs they knew, but are also aware of the growth in size and global reach of them. McInally played under Jupp Heynckes, the Bayern manager: "The Champions League was one we didn't quite manage," he said. "Two years in a row we were beaten in the semi-finals. He still blames me for missing a great chance against Milan in the first semi-final."

MacLeod has met Klopp and come to understand the inspirational nature of the Dortmund manager. "He has turned the young talent there in to world-class players," says MacLeod, "So he is doing something right."

The final might be too close to predict, given the capabilities of both sides, but also the nature of their rivalry. For two old pros who once featured for these clubs, and so can relive again so many of their memories, it is enough that Bayern Munich are playing Borussia Dortmund in the Champions League final. They favour their own sides, naturally enough, but recognise how close it will be.

"I've bet 2-1, although Lahm says it'll be 2-0," says McInally. "But if Dortmund won, I wouldn't be massively surprised."