Scottish Labour leadership interview: Kezia Dugdale

KEZIA Dugdale is "very loyal" to Jim Murphy, she says. "I think loyalty is an important asset to have in politics. I'm not going to say anything mean about Jim." She doesn't have to.

As she makes her case to succeed him as Scottish Labour leader, it's clear the 33-year-old first-term MSP can't wait to sprint in the opposite direction from Five Months Murphy.

Serving as his deputy has evidently left an abiding impression.

"In the election we came out with a whole heap of policies: bang, bang, bang," she explains. "Then we told people how we were going to do it - put up taxes, do this not that. The last thing we did was say why. Then we're surprised people don't know what Labour's for any more.

"I'm going to start with the why, reasserting what the Labour party exists for. Then tell people how we're going to do that, and the policies come at the end of it." Subtle, it ain't.

She even heaps praise on Murphy's nemesis, Unite general secretary Len McCluskey.

"He's a firebrand," she says approvingly of the man Murphy blamed for his messy exit.

"He's really good communicator. When he speaks people listen. I've got respect for that."

But many saw him as a malign influence on the party. "No, I wouldn't use those words."

With Labour in a hole, Dugdale's sees the immediate task of leader as simply getting people to listen to the party again before the 2016 election. There will be no Murphy-style policy blizzard. To catch people's attention, she plans to "talk relentlessly" about her pet subject, education.

The daughter of two teachers, the former student welfare officer sees it as a touchstone for Labour - how the state can help unlock "the potential in every single person", create a skilled workforce, improve the economy, and shape the future of Scotland.

It's also, she notes, "where the SNP's record is weakest", and she can score some hits.

She's already made a mark in the Labour contest by attacking tax breaks for private schools.

"I believe the state should run schools. That's an important point of principle," she says.

Her only foray into one, ostensibly to talk to an S6 class but more as a spy, left her fuming.

"It's not a class crusade. It's not about the politics of envy. It's question of fairness. I came away even angrier about what I saw as a really unfair, elite system that we all pay for."

She envisages a change of tone, too. Instead of Labour telling people "Scotland's crap, that Scotland's got loads of problems", there would be a more positive outlook.

"The SNP approach is, 'Scotland's a great place, but look how much better it could be if we did X, Y and Z.' I need to tell a story about how I'm ambitious for my country, and it could be so much better. We also have to say something to people who aren't just trying to get by, but are trying to get on. If you want a better job, a promotion, a nicer car, what's Labour going to do for you?"

One idea she's examining is a help-to-buy scheme in New Zealand where employers and the state chip in to help house-hunters build a deposit.

But first there's the small matter of Scottish Labour to fix. In a recent speech she said it might not always be there. Is this an existential crisis for the party? She doesn't deny it.

She explains how Labour has always turned to institutions - the NHS, the welfare state, Holyrood - to supply answers, but in an increasingly fragmented, technology-driven society, "building institutions probably isn't the future of politics. I think there will always be a Labour party. I will campaign on that basis. But let's not presume voters will always want one."

It's refreshingly blunt. But when we turn to next May, her candour reaches its limit.

For while her diagnosis seems sound, and her strategy reasonable, there's no getting round the fact it's all extravagantly hypothetical with the SNP so dominant.

Who's going to be First Minister a year from now? "If the election was tomorrow it would be Nicola Sturgeon." It's not tomorrow, it's next May. "Hopefully I'll be the leader of the Scottish Labour party. It's up to the electorate to decide what's going to happen."

Could you be FM in a year? "I'm going to campaign for every single Labour vote. There's nothing I would love more than to have the levers of power to change the country. That's why I get up every day. I'm fed up of just opposing the SNP and all the crap that comes with that."

She previously said she admired Sturgeon. Is that still true? "I'm a feminist and I am really proud that we have a female First Minister. I think Nicola Sturgeon is a really strong politician. She's the best politician of her generation. What's wrong with me saying that?"

Nothing. But given she's your competition, are you ever going to be the winner?

"But that's not the choice," she winces. "It's about values. It's bigger than that." Maybe.

But while she likes Sturgeon, she's angry about the SNP's unimaginative use of Holyrood's powers. She cites a recent nursery visit in a deprived area where a three-year-old's teeth had all rotted out because of sugary drinks at home.

"I'm fed up living in a country where that still happens. But the first thing we do is ask who's to blame - is it Westminster, is it Holyrood? We're not talking about how to improve that kid's life. If it becomes a constitutional debate we're letting that kid down. We've got over a £30bn budget here. But does it work to help the most vulnerable? No it doesn't."

If power eludes her, she says she might try writing novels in a few years' time instead.

"I really like crime fiction. I've read something of every Scottish crime fiction writer."

Who would you have murdered? "More blokes," she grins. "I'm of the Denise Mina school of thought that we need more crime fiction that doesn't picture women as victims all the time. She always kills the blokes." Jim Murphy and his gang beware.