IF the quality of managers you play under during your career is an indicator of how good a player you are then Kenny Black is a man who deserves a lot of respect.

Certainly, the coaches for whom the veteran Airdrie defender has played during his 18 years in the game makes interesting reading.

None more so than the man who signed him for Portsmouth nearly 10 years ago, one John Gregory, whose Aston Villa side currently sit at the top of the English premier division.

Gregory is just one of the familiar managerial names from the past and present, including Jock Wallace, the current Derby coach, Jim Smith, Tony Barton who took Aston Villa to European Cup success, as well as Bobby Watson and John Greig who all spotted Black's potential and put him into their sides.

The durability of his career has meant that Black is now one of the elder statesman of Scottish football, a man who can recall making his league debut for Rangers against Hibs in 1980 and yes, before you ask, he was booked.

In his second game for the Ibrox side he was sent off for two bookable challenges on Ralph Milne in a 3-0 away defeat against Dundee United.

Black is one of the few footballers, former Hearts striker John Robertson now with Livingston is another, who has a remarkable memory of his time in football.

According to Black, who is 35 years old next month, anyone worth his salt would remember early days spent in a Rangers defence which included Peter McCloy, Sandy Jardine, Tom Forsyth and Colin Jackson.

It was those early encounters for Rangers, one booking, one sending-off in his first two games which sowed the seeds of his image as one of the hard-men of Scottish football.

However, the fact he is still playing while many others have since retired or left the footballing limelight suggests there was always more to his play than the physical element.

One thing that he will be hoping to change in tomorrow's league cup semi-final against Rangers at Parkhead is his unfortunate record in taking that extra step to win major competitions.

The sorry saga of Black's unlucky run began in 1986-86 when he was part of the Hearts team which were runners-up in the Scottish league to Celtic on goal difference after they lost their final game away to Dundee by 2-0. Seven days later, on May 10, he played in midfield as Hearts were beaten 3-0 by Aberdeen in the Scottish cup final.

He was in the Airdrie side which lost the 1994-95 Scottish Cup final to Celtic by 1-0 through a strike by Pierre van Hooijdonk but missed out on the 2-1 defeat by Rangers in the same competition two years previously through suspension.

To add to his bad luck, Black said he played in three league cup semi-finals for Airdrie all of which his team lost on penalties.

In fact, his only final success during his career has been a 3-2 victory for Airdrie over Dundee in the league challenge cup final of the same year that they lost to Celtic in the Scottish cup final.

The lack of major winner's medals is something which does disappoint Black who believes to pick up one major honour before he retires will cap a career full of memories.

As well as playing for Rangers at only 17 after joining them straight from Larbert High School, Black had played for Motherwell, then Hearts, then Portsmouth who he left in 1991 to sign for Airdrie for #100,000 to play under Alex MacDonald who had earlier signed him for the Tynecastle club.

Things have come full circle for Black who will take the field against Rangers tomorrow, the side he started his career with and one which he accepts will provide a stiff challenge for his first division team.

''It's great for some players nowadays to have big contracts to help them financially but all players want the medals and the memorabilia which showed that they have won something during their careers,'' said Black.

''It's getting to the twilight of my career now and I would like to think there is a little twist in the tale before I retire which will allow me to win a major trophy.

''Over the years Airdrie have had some good cup runs and this year has been no different with us beating Stenhousemuir, Kilmarnock and Celtic on the way to the semi-final.''

Despite their cup success so far Black is too worldly-wise to suggest his side have a good chance against Rangers.

''Being realistic we need maybe nine of their players to be a bit off-form and for at least one of our lads playing the best he has ever played, plus us having a lot of luck to give us a chance. There is absolutely no point in us kidding ourselves about these facts.''

Black said he had seen signs that Advocaat's masterplan for his team was finally falling into place.

''I would argue that it was Souness who brought the best players at one time to Ibrox but Advocaat is an experienced coach who knows changes won't happen overnight and it will take time for his tactics to paid dividends.

''Despite that I have seen indications that he is very close to putting together his vision for Rangers and the team he wants out on the pitch.

''Because of that we are meeting them at a time when they are playing well and it is clear it's going to be a hard match for us. Despite that Airdrie does have a good cup record and one things for sure all the players will be up for the match.''