Leader of the Lords to meet Boris Johnson in bid to cut number of peers

For over a century parliamentarians have been trying, without much success, to undertake major reform of the Lords, which, famously, after China’s National People’s Congress, is the largest legislature in the world with more than half of its appointed members aged over 70.

Many over the years have called for it to be abolished, from Labour’s founding father Keir Hardie to the modern-day SNP; indeed under Cromwell’s Commonwealth it was scrapped for a decade or so. Others, like Lord Steel, the former Liberal leader and ex-Holyrood Presiding Officer, and Gordon Brown, the former Labour prime minister, have wanted to turn the Lords into an elected Senate to help better represent the four nations of the UK in a more federalised system.

In an exclusive interview with The Herald, Lord McFall of Alcluith insisted one of his key aims in his new role was to “reach out” across the UK and have a more diverse membership in the upper chamber.

To this end, he will shortly meet Mr Johnson to discuss the recommendations of the 2017 Burns Report, which proposed a Lords membership of 600 under a “two out-one in” system and a 15-year fixed term for new peers. Yet it was pointed out how only last week Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office Minister, made clear Lords reform was not a priority for the Conservative Government, saying the subject could "consume an enormous amount of time without much benefit”.

The Lord Speaker bristled. “Well, my meeting will be with the Prime Minister not Michael Gove,” he declared, stressing how his central message to Mr Johnson would be about delivering on the main Burns Report recommendations. “That’s very, very important.”

The leading peer accepted it was only through Government legislation that major Lords reform could take place and recognised there was nothing in this regard in the recent Queen’s Speech.

However, he noted: “Well, we’re on a journey and if you look at the Burns Report it was over a 10-year period.”

Asked if he was hopeful, optimistic even, the PM would agree to start cutting the number of peers in the upper chamber, Lord McFall replied: “I distinguish between the words ‘hopeful’ and ‘optimistic’. I’m always hopeful.”

When it was put to him this suggested he was not optimistic, the Lord Speaker said: “I’m hopeful. That’s a good philosophy for engaging in politics or whatever else…”

Speaking from the grandeur of his oak-pannelled office overlooking the River Thames, Lord McFall, who took up his elected role as Lord Speaker in May, insisted, despite his elevation to the highest office in the Lords, he was not a pillar of the Establishment.

“Absolutely not,” declared the 76-year-old parliamentarian, seeming somewhat affronted at the very suggestion.

“I’m the same guy who lives in Dumbarton. Nobody says anything about my role in the House of Lords. They’ve maybe seen me on the telly and that’s it.”

Lord McFall served as a whip and a Northern Ireland Minister in Tony Blair’s administration - during his time in office he witnessed the harrowing aftermath of the Omagh bombing - but became highly prominent as Chairman of the Common Treasury Committee in the wake of the 2008 financial crash.

The former chemistry teacher and father-of-four still proudly lives in the same part of Scotland he grew up in, having represented a Dunbartonshire seat as a Labour MP for 23 years before entering the Lords in 2010. He regards his time in the Gothic upper chamber with its gilded pilasters, flock wallpaper and red leather benches as effectively an “away-day ticket to London”.

The peer recalled: “Let me tell you when I became a Lord, I was out in the garden and two young lads passed me and shouted: ‘Hello John.’ So, they came across and spoke to me. One of them said: ‘Oh, don’t we have to call you Lord McFall.’ To which the other one with an expletive - which I’ll leave out - said: ‘Don’t be so…daft.’” Laughing, the peer noted: “So, he answered for me.”

As Lord President, the Scot is non-affiliated in terms of party. He pulls in an annual salary of £104,000 and acts as the upper chamber’s presiding officer, sitting on the famous woolsack but has fewer powers in the chamber than his Commons counterpart Sir Lindsay Hoyle; having no authority to call members to order, to decide who speaks next in a debate or to select legislative amendments.

His other roles are administrative, he chairs the House of Lords Commission, which oversees the upper chamber, and ambassadorial, he represents it at home and abroad.

In the interview, Lord McFall also said:

*it was a “good aspiration” to have all politicians elected but the current practice of electing 92 hereditary peers to the Lords was an “absurdity”;

*if the UK Government lifted restrictions on July 19 as planned, the Lords could get back to normal sittings in September;

*the upper chamber sitting in Scotland once a year was a “good idea” but queried the practicalities of organising it for the whole House;

*there was “work to do” in improving inter-parliamentary relations between Westminster and Holyrood;

*the “drift of executive authority” by governments had to be challenged and there was a need for those who scrutinised legislation, both in London and Edinburgh, to “pull that back” and

*it was “for them to decide” when asked if it was a mistake for the SNP not to send representatives to the Lords.

The political controversy, which continues to hang over the Lords, is that it has become a “House of cronies,” a charge again made a few weeks ago when it emerged Lord Cruddas, the former co-Treasurer of the Conservatives, was made a peer just days after donating £500,000 to the party.

The billionaire, who heads a UK-based online share-trading company, denied emphatically that there was any link between his donation and the peerage, insisting he wanted to use his Lords membership to "do my bit for Queen and country".

But Labour accused the Prime Minister of “incredible sleaze” while the SNP said Lord Cruddas’s appointment was another example of a “corrupt Tory government handing out jobs for the boys”.

Lord McFall revealed he was due this week to meet Lord Bew, Chairman of the House of Lords Appointments Commission[HoLAC]to discuss “how it goes about its business…and its future. The Cruddas case doesn’t have anything to do with me as Lord Speaker but I’m looking at HoLAC.”

He stressed appointments were a matter for HoLAC but pointed out: “What they don’t have…is a statutory basis for the criteria of suitability; it’s important we do have that and we do more to reflect society.”

As well as Lord Cruddas, a recent batch of appointed Tory peers included: Mr Johnson’s brother, Jo; Michael Spicer, another Tory Party donor; Sir Patrick McLoughlin, the ex-Conservative Chairman, and Eddie Udny-Lister, the PM’s former senior adviser.

Asked if people were right to believe the Lords was becoming a “House of cronies,” the Lord Speaker replied: “That’s for the Government themselves to answer.”

But when it was pointed out that he was the highest authority in the upper chamber and must have a view about its reputation, he explained: “This is a self-regulating House and the Lord Speaker doesn’t have a view on who comes into the House; that’s very clear.”

When it was suggested it seemed clear that he was dissatisfied about how things were working at present, Lord McFall said: “Well, that’s for you to interpret. I’m the Lord Speaker and I have no view on that.”

The Scot is the first Roman Catholic to hold the Lord Speakership and was asked if he was proud of this.

He paused and laughed: “Actually, nobody’s ever mentioned that to me.”

Curiously perhaps with his new role, Lord McFall has become a Commissioner of the Church of England. Asked how the Anglican brethren had taken to a Catholic being part of its administration, he replied: “Well, I’ve actually risen higher in the Church of England than I have in the Catholic Church.”

He stressed it was a constitutional role but added, again laughing: “I’m looking for reassurance that my role there is limited.”

One contentious comment he made on becoming Lord Speaker was that his appointment would send a strong message about the importance of the Union.

“If you look at the situation of the past 10 years or so, there is less opportunity for Scots to be in positions of national engagement. This is one position where there is a national element and it was in that context[I said that].”

He then proudly declared: “I’m Scottish. Every bone in my body is Scottish. I’ve lived in the one town well over my 70 years. Nobody can say to me I am anything other than Scottish. In fact, when I came down here at first I was misinterpreted; I was speaking too fast. So, I decided the only concession I would make would be to speak slower.”

Laughing and clapping his hands, Lord McFall added: “And it’s worked wonders.”