Independence minister warns marching alone won't deliver Yes vote

Mr Hepburn was speaking after the All Under One Banner (AUOB) group invited the First Minister to speak at its rally in Stirling on June 24.

“Yes supporters expect you to march and speak at at least one of this year’s national demonstrations,” AUOB said last week.

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However Mr Yousaf appeared to turn down the invite on Friday, saying merely that an unnamed “senior member of the SNP team” would attend.

On Saturday, the SNP then announced it would hold a members-only independence convention in Dundee on the same day, June 24, creating a diary clash.

Mr Hepburn said the “de facto referendum” idea backed by Nicola Sturgeon before she quit as SNP leader would be part of the discussion in Dundee about the party’s pitch at the general election.

He also defended having around 20 civil servants work on a new prospectus on independence, despite little prospect of a referendum in this parliament.

AUOB held a rally in Glasgow on the day of the Coronation earlier this month, which was attended by Alex Salmond and the SNP MP Joanna Cherry and MSP Ash Regan.

Asked why he didn’t attend when it was his job to bring independence about, Mr Hepburn said: “Well, look I've nothing against going to marches, I’ve nothing against going to rallies. That can be an important part of demonstrating that we're not going anywhere [not abandoning the cause]. 

“But, look, we're not going to win independence by marching and rallying alone. 

“So what I was actually doing that weekend is what I do most weekends.

"I was out there speaking to my constituents [in Cumbernauld & Kilsyth], making the case directly to them for Scotland to become an independent country. That is, after all, how we are going to win independence, by making the case to people and persuading them.” 

He denied senior people in the SNP didn’t like AUOB. 

“There were representatives from my party speaking. There were many, many SNP members there. But this is not really the big issue of the day.  This isn't the issue that's out there on the streets. 

“If we're going to make the independence case, then we engage with the public. 

“We go out there and talk about the underlying strengths of the Scottish economy. We talk about how other comparable countries in the north of Europe, the Republic of Ireland, Denmark, Finland, roughly the same size as Scotland, they're all wealthier, fairer, happier,  more productive countries. They provide the model for Scotland.

“We go out there and talk about that. We engage with the public to make the case for independence. We don’t have to look far for positive examples.” 

Asked if Mr Yousaf should be going to the AUOB rally in Stirling, Mr Hepburn said: “I'll be engaging with the SNP Independence Convention because I think that’s important, that we engage with SNP members, make sure that they have their chance, rightly, as party members, to discuss the platform that we’ll stand on the next general election.

“We will lay out our prospectus in advance of the election. I’m very confident we’ll do well.”

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Mr Hepburn was asked for his plan to deliver independence given the other Westminster parties have said they would block it.

He said: “The First Minister announced yesterday… that we will hold an SNP independence convention on the 24th of June which will provide party members the opportunity to come together to discuss the road ahead, discuss what our platform will be, in advance of the 2024 general election.

“I can certainly say independence will be front and centre, and we will be considering exactly that - how do we lay out a manifesto which will include a commitment to take Scotland forward to independence and we will lay out exactly how we intend to do that as part of that platform.”

At Ms Sturgeon’s instigation, the UK Supreme Court ruled last year on whether Holyrood had the power to hold Indyref2 without Westminster’s consent, and ruled that it did not.

After the unanimous judgment, the then First Minister said she would fight the next general election as a “de facto referendum” on the sole question of independence.

However the idea failed to take off among the public or SNP members, and appeared to have withered away after Ms Sturgeon quit as party leader.

But asked if a de facto referendum was still on the table, Mr Hepburn said: “Well, the First Minister has said that so long as it's rightly within the parameters of a legal electoral route, no options should be taken off the table, so that will form part of our discussion.” 

Ms Sturgeon also announced an updated multi-part independence prospectus two years ago, but to date there have been only three instalments, the last one in October 2022.

During the SNP leadership contest in March, Mr Yousaf said the £1.5million exercise was material “that frankly sits on a website and nobody reads”.

Asked where the other instalments were, Mr Hepburn said the next one was “a matter of weeks” away.

He said “roughly” 20 civil servants were working on them, defended their production on the basis the SNP had a “democratic mandate”, and said he intended there to be “many more” parts.

Tory MSP Donald Cameron said: “Jamie Hepburn couldn’t have made it more obvious that the SNP have no intention of tackling Scotland’s real priorities.

“They’re having yet another conference, just for their members, on how to break up the UK – something Scots decisively rejected.

“The minister made a series of ridiculous claims in relation to trade, proving again that the SNP’s grasp of facts is skewed by their obsession with separation.

"He made it obvious that his post as Minister for Independence is a pointless one, designed to placate his party’s supporters, but funded by ordinary Scots who reject this divisive message.”